I've been going over my yokai and dream creature folders and realized this would probably come up sooner or later.

Sometimes, monsters look really human. Sometimes they are humans with distorted or disfigured features or faces, and sometimes they are humans without a face.

Definitions

To rule out what we're talking about, a few definitions.

- A disfigured character still look like the species they are based off, but can have things like bodyparts in the wrong places or tumors growing out of them.
- A zombie is a character that is disfigured to the point most of their body has a visibly non-human or corpse-like quality.
- A distorted character is not necessarily disfigured, but can have missing or extra features or proportions that look notably "off".
- A noppera-bo is a character without a face.

Example: Masada-Sensei

A good example of a distorted/half-noppera character. When drawn in his typical style, he has a face that is very clearly non-human and lacking a mouth, and he often has exaggerated proportions and long wobbly arms. However, for a lot of shipping, he's just drawn as a bishie. His "on-model" look is just a few pixels large, so canonically he could really pass for either, but he has a manga appearance that somewhat interprets a more distorted look.

The "on-model" semi-official manga look: https://yume.wiki/yume/Seccom_Masada-sensei#/media/File:Masada.png
How many shippers draw him: https://yumeboo.ru/post/12233

It's pretty obvious the latter is not suitable here, but what do we do with the former (when there's a suitable pairing, naturally)?

Questions

- Should we allow (any of) disfigured/zombie/distorted/noppera humanoid characters to pass as male monsters?
- Should we allow (any of) disfigured/zombie/distorted/noppera humanoid characters to pass as human girls?
- Should we consider a characters "canonical" state when judging if an image is suitable?
- Any other considerations to make, like a characters face, for any of the above?

Personally, I feel that a character like masada is a pretty good baseline that intuitively feels right at the border, but i'm not really sure which side. On one hand, his "on-model" face is distorted to the point it doesn't look human at all, but on the other he'd still look indistinguishable from one from many angles.

I think that disfigurement alone is not sufficient to qualify a character as a male monster, there has to be some distortion to them, or they would have to be a full-blown zombie. I think a visible non-human face is especially important for edge cases if we choose to allow it at all.

I'm not so familiar with this topic. However in order to help approach it I think these 2 questions are helpful:

• What ships are yume's making?
• Example question: Do yumes have disfigured and zombie husbandos?
• How important is the otherness or monstrous personality of the husbando?

Alot of stories / fanfiction doesn't have many visual elements. So if yumes have a ship with a twisted human / humanoid while writing and thinking of him as a monster, that would be a pretty strong point for allowing art of those characters, even if they look like manga Masada-Sensei. Shipper Masada fits more the brooding emo boy archetype so he's not really terato material.

One edge case could be Rottytops from Shantae. Could she be a yume? If she were Rule 63d / drew crossgender would he be a monster / monster boy who's monstrous enough to be here?

Sorry that these ideas aren't directly answering your questions. I don't have much understanding into these monsters and who follows them.

To me, the primary difficulty with monster-like humanoid characters from a terato perspective is that they're almost always anthropomorphized or heavily cartoonized to the point of being indistinguishable from human characters. It's a bit like anthros to ferals in a furry context, except instead you almost always end up with ferals and the equivalent of kemonomimis, or "humans with green skin and an antenna". This makes it hard to find characters that are more about giving a genuine sense of "human, but not quite", which I think is definitely (a subset of) terato territory. Finding characters like rottytops or shipper masada is very easy on existing boorus because most people can take them for humans (even more so than furry anthros), while on-model masada is very hard because few people can.

Admittedly, figuring out an actual guideline here that doesn't run down to curation is probably impossible, but an attempt might look something like:

- Character should have notably distorted body proportions compared to the human character and no visible face.
or
- Character should have a notably distorted face compared to the human character.

At the same time, properly distorted monster humanoids paired with human girls is probably a rather fringe interest, and allowing humanoids just to fit them in might just end up drowning the booru with green-skinned humans regardless of what we say about distortion. It might work to say that humanoids are permitted but default-blacklisted, and to use a specific tag for the above but default-blacklist them nonetheless.

Either way, I'm fine with both allowing a wide range of humanoid monster characters (though preferably with a tag that captures the above) or banning them outright.

allowing humanoids just to fit them in might just end up drowning the booru with green-skinned humans regardless of what we say about distortion.

That would be my main concern.
Really running with distortions of humanoid things is, to me at least, fine with keeping with the more monstrous focus, and blanket allowing "distortions" might lead to a lot of more or less ordinary humans being tagged as monsters because of the lore surrounding them. Lord knows just within Pokemon there's weird cases of something "feral" just being a blue skinned dude in a karate gi, so sharing a bit of thematic tolerance to other things is well within the spirit of the booru, just so long as it doesn't ultimately give way to human x human and human x anthro content getting a foothold. I figure, as long as the focus remains pretty solidly on feral/terato figures, and any grey areas needing a solid case for them being here, it should work, but ultimately that does fall to some arbiter to decide what's a monster, and what's a guy with a skin disorder.

I think I would try to call a tag like that "distorted_proportions" and "distorted_face" with very clear qualifiers in the wiki for what that actually means, which might hopefully qualify away mere skin disorders/recolors. Anthro furries I think can be handled as exceptions for how specific they almost always are and with there already being multiple boorus dedicated to them.

Where I think this might introduce significant risk is with more traditional humanoid monsters, and especially vampires but also gremlins and goblins. I think allowing content in the direction of "distorted human proportions" could end up with those turning into gnomes and dwarves at the end of the day.

But when you start considering orcs and centaurs with clearly human-like faces but not human-like bodies (compare to bipedals like Machop, or Mr. Mime) I'm kind of realizing human arbitration might be necessary at the end of the day to allow bipedals at all without devolving into a warcraft orc booru. I don't know, maybe those can also be handled as exceptions.

The more I think about it, the more I realize the problem is almost always in the face.

Looks like I accidentally included two in the latest batch, guess you can use them as examples for what I meant in the first clause.

https://monyu.me/posts/243
https://monyu.me/posts/244

anonymous said:
Looks like I accidentally included two in the latest batch, guess you can use them as examples for what I meant in the first clause.

https://monyu.me/posts/243
https://monyu.me/posts/244

yeahh this is why im kinda holding these for now

(You can delete them if you want to clean up the mod queue, I'm just still figuring out my hydrus script to work with the concurrency limit so it's a bit manual at the moment)

anonymous said:
Looks like I accidentally included two in the latest batch, guess you can use them as examples for what I meant in the first clause.

https://monyu.me/posts/243
https://monyu.me/posts/244

anonymous said:
(You can delete them if you want to clean up the mod queue, I'm just still figuring out my hydrus script to work with the concurrency limit so it's a bit manual at the moment)

I saw these and held off either approving or removing them for the time being. Until we figure out clearer rules I'm being more careful about what I approve.

We're currently working on making a general Tagging Checklist for the wiki. Does anyone want to publish some first wiki page drafts for guidelines on monsters for this thread and humans for topic #7? That way we can start itemizing our expectations and revising until we find a good set of criteria that is close to what we want.

wawanya said:
Does anyone want to publish some first wiki page drafts for guidelines on monsters for this thread and humans for topic #7? That way we can start itemizing our expectations and revising until we find a good set of criteria that is close to what we want.

I've been thinking about the above and I actually think the two guidelines I posted can work as a basis to distinguish bipedal monsters in a way we probably want and with some specific exceptions for proportions we're not looking for (dwarves, orcs, anthros) since those usually have their own communities. If you think that might work, I can attempt to write a more detailed version and you can see if it's a good direction or not.

anonymous said:
I've been thinking about the above and I actually think the two guidelines I posted can work as a basis to distinguish bipedal monsters in a way we probably want and with some specific exceptions for proportions we're not looking for (dwarves, orcs, anthros) since those usually have their own communities. If you think that might work, I can attempt to write a more detailed version and you can see if it's a good direction or not.

hmm the thing is some of the most liked thread mons fall under anthro. (cinderace, intelleon, hypno, toxtricity etc.)
i do not want to scare away yumes who like those anthro pokemon from posting here.
i would say when it comes to anthrofication then discourage specifically that. i wouldnt say users would like to see anthrofied pokemon here.
also i myself do like werewolves/anthros/baras so i post them sometimes. (shrug) maybe sometimes is the key word here and people just dont want everything to be furries but we have plenty of feral posters so i dont think thats an issue.
(funnily enough i dont like most anthro pokemon.)

>dwarfes
normally just look like short humans. i wouldnt say these should be here at all.

>goblins
i mean.. pokemon like hypno (especially he is guilty of just looking like a yellow goblin man), the morgrem line and maybe sableye all fall into this category so id just allow them as long as they look like goblins
because we are kinda allowing them already.. (also we have an anon who loves hypno so in a way it doesnt feel fair to me.)

thoughts on extremely humanoid monsters like masada.. complicated.
at the bare minimum if we allow them they should at least have 1 feature that shows theyre clearly monsters like a distorted face because without that its just a lanky or spooky person.
at the end of the day we are trying to get away from anime human x anime human art yet at the same time i dont want to cut off too many monsters.
aliens and zombies are just cool so id want to keep them hmm.

my restrictive rule idea so far mainly concerns things that just look like regular anime people with features attached because im sure about such content not belonging.
(kemomimi, regular human looking "vampires", dwarves, humans with wings, bishie masada, humans with just unnatural skin tones and nothing else going on, etc. )
cause that is definitely something we do not need here and would get rid of a lot of undesirable things like aliens that are just green people without anything else.

>rottytops as a male
- too realistically proportioned.
- no rot.
- normal anime girl eyes.
ehh.. it just kinda looks like a green human.
better safe than sorry and just not allow zombies if theres no rot at all.

small idea?:
i mean if we are really concerned about these male humanoids then we could have a rough upload limit rule on such male monster content (so that we arent literally flooded by it..) and call it a day after defining it.
maybe even putting it on the global blacklist.

i guess i personally dont mind male humanoids as much as long as they dont literally just look like jeff the killer and are flooding our site.
i dont want the booru flooded with "audience safe" human anime boy x girl art because that already floods the tag on pixiv (or any space really we try to find).
that is the one thing i care about here and my concern with these as male mons.

i guess we could have higher up users etc. decide on if a monster is too human looking in art if it reeeally comes to that.
you could discourage such male humanoid content in the rules if you really want to be safe.

Oh, by goblins/orcs/anthros I'm thinking mostly of those that are just discolored humans with some extra features. Hypno, I think, has a clearly non-human-like facial structure as do most other pokemon including the furry anthros, compared to a lot of "stock" furry that seem intended to be "human faces if they were dogs/cats/bears/etc", which I do think we want to avoid being flooded by. It's more that I think these have similar issues to those bishie boy monsters do in inviting overly anthropomorphized depictions where facial distortions are worked around to maintain an "audience-friendly" human face. "Overly" is the keyword here, I think, and that it's worth considering some of these that are probably not meaningful distortions for if most people could find them attractive or not.

anonymous said:
Oh, by goblins/orcs/anthros I'm thinking mostly of those that are just discolored humans with some extra features. Hypno, I think, has a clearly non-human-like facial structure as do most other pokemon including the furry anthros, compared to a lot of "stock" furry that seem intended to be "human faces if they were dogs/cats/bears/etc", which I do think we want to avoid being flooded by. It's more that I think these have similar issues to those bishie boy monsters do in inviting overly anthropomorphized depictions where facial distortions are worked around to maintain an "audience-friendly" human face. "Overly" is the keyword here, I think, and that it's worth considering some of these that are probably not meaningful distortions for if most people could find them attractive or not.

>stock furry
guess i would need an example. furries draw either kemono (do you mean that?) or western style so i cant really think of what you mean right now unless you mean those.

I was going to try to get some examples in both styles but found one that I think captures it really well in how both (sometimes) tend to do it: https://files.catbox.moe/fe5n4u.png

What I mean is not that any of these signs are bad or too much, but that if you have one image with almost all these signs, chances are probably the character is more intended to appeal to those who are mostly into humans and like a little bit of animal on top. Furry anthros generally come in a range of "how anthropomorphized/feral" they are, and a lot of them in both japanese and western (including disney) styles tend strongly towards the latter, though western styles probably a little more.

A pokemon like Hypno, while he has eyes and a nose, is drawn very differently from humans in his own universe, has a much rounder face, completely different eyes, is yellow and has a goblin-like appearance. The last two do matter, I think they are just not sufficient on their own for whether or not a character with them is drawn to liken a human or not. Cinderace does have eyes similar to human characters, but that's about it, his facial structure is so different it's very hard to imagine drawing him as a human. He's not the most feral anthro, but not the least feral anthro either. Inteleon stands upright, but otherwise has almost no human-like proportions.

To me, terato is in some sense about attraction or liking to non-human sentient beings in general. There's overlap with furry, both feral and anthro, but I don't think furry is a strict subset of terato, and some anthro goes so far with the anthropomorphization that I think it stops being terato before it stops being furry. I'm not sure if that should mean trying to ban or blacklist or just mandatory tag "overly anthropomorphized" monsters in general, but I think there is some interest in distinguishing what can pass as a "monster" from what can pass as a "furry" or a "goblin" or an "orc". I think leniency is important so people don't feel scared to upload something they like, but if something like it begins to dominate uploads it might be good to have some basis of a guideline in place.

... But that's just my opinion! If others feel less strongly about it or don't mind very anthropomorphized characters, I'm really fine with just a general anthro or humanoid tag and those and anything more specific can probably be handled within it.

i have another thought. this is more about the alien discussion. (if people are ok with those.) would zim be alright with users as long as its tagged?
(we should probably tag all humanoid aliens the same way we would do things like masada) cause id like to archive some yume x zim art of him in his alien form (no hair, bug eyes) and with his actual chibi proportions.
i know some artists draw them more like people sized or in the human costume form but im not interested in that personally so i wouldnt even save those.

anonymous said:
I was going to try to get some examples in both styles but found one that I think captures it really well in how both (sometimes) tend to do it: https://files.catbox.moe/fe5n4u.png

What I mean is not that any of these signs are bad or too much, but that if you have one image with almost all these signs, chances are probably the character is more intended to appeal to those who are mostly into humans and like a little bit of animal on top. Furry anthros generally come in a range of "how anthropomorphized/feral" they are, and a lot of them in both japanese and western (including disney) styles tend strongly towards the latter, though western styles probably a little more.

A pokemon like Hypno, while he has eyes and a nose, is drawn very differently from humans in his own universe, has a much rounder face, completely different eyes, is yellow and has a goblin-like appearance. The last two do matter, I think they are just not sufficient on their own for whether or not a character with them is drawn to liken a human or not. Cinderace does have eyes similar to human characters, but that's about it, his facial structure is so different it's very hard to imagine drawing him as a human. He's not the most feral anthro, but not the least feral anthro either. Inteleon stands upright, but otherwise has almost no human-like proportions.

To me, terato is in some sense about attraction or liking to non-human sentient beings in general. There's overlap with furry, both feral and anthro, but I don't think furry is a strict subset of terato, and some anthro goes so far with the anthropomorphization that I think it stops being terato before it stops being furry. I'm not sure if that should mean trying to ban or blacklist or just mandatory tag "overly anthropomorphized" monsters in general, but I think there is some interest in distinguishing what can pass as a "monster" from what can pass as a "furry" or a "goblin" or an "orc". I think leniency is important so people don't feel scared to upload something they like, but if something like it begins to dominate uploads it might be good to have some basis of a guideline in place.

... But that's just my opinion! If others feel less strongly about it or don't mind very anthropomorphized characters, I'm really fine with just a general anthro or humanoid tag and those and anything more specific can probably be handled within it.

im glad you explained your thoughts.
-the short snout thing.. bunnies (linked), cats, certain dog breeds.. well you can hardly make them longer on those. (i know you mentioned more like bears but the pic provided is a bunny girl.)

-eyelashes exist on animals so this is also kinda difficult.
(secretary birds are a good example of huge eyelashes but i get what youre trying to say with this. you just mean humanization in the face. im just saying eyebrows would be a better indicator.)

-eye size is not important to fall under stock furry. the wolf man i uploaded (now that i look at him) has small eyes and especially male humans are depicted with smaller eyes
yet i would say he could fall under stock furry from certain angles even if he has a longer snout.

at this point you would be talking about a lot of anthros drawn by the internet in general mmm. a big reason i like those is because theyre the closest i can get to what i like sometimes when it comes to terato.
(big muscle monster with a creature head and animal legs is on the list aside from my preference for semi anthros and ferals.)
i do wish people would draw something cooler or less popular sometimes but a black bara werewolf (not that i dont love those but man.. what i wouldnt give for more feral insects..)
or a cat man is often times the best you get.
for me the border is more at digitigrade vs plantigrade on true anthros where i feel plantigrade is too human (not that you can even choose sometimes there..)
so for me its actually more on the legs and for you its more on the face.

makes me also realize youd have to potentially boot every sonic character from the site (with a ban rule that is) which is a huge loss because of the canon human x creature pairs there (very obvious yume franchise).
i just think we cut off way too much material with an actual ban rule for example.
im kinda looking at my uploads here and not many fall under stock furry yet but its just such a shame to get rid of the material amount and im also thinking about things like animal crossing (which i was gonna upload) so when it comes to stuff like banning then.. yeah im definitely against it.

now about discouraging? maybe we could try to describe what the preferences of the site are and that we arent some anthro only community or such things. that we like monsters here? something that doesnt scare away cinderace posters while also not turning the site into just furries..? a suggestion maybe..

>but if something like it begins to dominate uploads it might be good to have some basis of a guideline in place.
feel free to write something.

also when i start comparing this to pokemon then i gotta say modern pokemon is starting to look like this. (and it wouldnt surprise me if they push it further than the drawing linked.)
i would actually say this drawing shares a lot of features with cinderace even if his hair is more "stylized" to look like fire but then again cinderace has a more "human" snout than this furry drawing
because he forms a ":)" while the furry girl forms a ":3".
i mean hell he even wears clothes. (yeah im not buying the pokemon anatomy explanation from gamefreak there. those are clothes.) also lets not forget fanart that gives him cheeks.
to me these are kinda the same so i wouldnt say one should be allowed and the other not just because cinderace belongs to a giant brand but okay im the type of person who just doesnt like making exceptions for pokemon™.
some yumes also make ocs out of their pokemon husbandos and who am i to say that the "cinderace" furry oc isnt allowed but an actual cinderace is. i just dont like these inconsistencies.
its in the back of my head that yumes must like these features combined (as a preference) on some level because of how anthro pokemon (im also thinking about future pkmn anthros) share a sort of resemblance here.
(at least to me. to you it might not be the case.)

>blacklist or just mandatory tag
>general anthro or humanoid tag
we are thinking about adding a tag for true monsters so hopefully this can bring some joy to users who have those as their favorites.
we can definitely just have a tag for very stock furry type characters if users would like to filter them. something that isnt just the anthro tag but a completely new tag. wouldnt even mind adding this tag to old submissions.
im also open to putting this on the global blacklist if people desire that. i really dont mind if we do this if users find this important to them.
(im not gonna lie. i think the sonic stuff can be very cute even if im not a sonic fan.)

wew i wrote a lot.

Caught up with everything you both wrote. Thanks for expanding on your ideas! I have time to add my own feelings now.

One of the things that is difficult to directly search for on e6 is Anthro Male on Human Female (/amohf/) content especially if it's sfw. The Human Male on Female Anthro (/hmofa/) community is where I started being active in these spaces but I found I really enjoyed /amohf/ and considering that e6 has problems filtering out /hmofa/ content I feel like this booru should allow more anthro males.

What that means is that even though "monster" is a very strong part of this place's identity that I would be comfortable allowing stock furries. That said I also really like terato characters so getting the balance right between the 2 is essential. Using tags to make it possible to only search for more terato monsters should be the right way to handle this.

Here are my stances on the raised examples. I appreciate you discussing so many.

Since Pokemon forms the baseline of the booru's allowed content I think we should allow all of them even the ones most similar to humans. That means explicitly allowing all the edge cases such as Marchamp, Hypno, Hitmontop to Hitmonchan, Mr. Mime, Sableye, Toxtricity, Gardevoir, Gallade, Lopunny, Cinderace, Intelleon and other similar mons. For now I'm also comfortable with anthrofied on_model Pokemon but am willing to revisit that if they start saturating our content.
Extending from that stock furry anthros and (straight) baras that might look like Inceneroar are allowed. A furry looking like the example bunny would be acceptable I think.
While Rule 34 and sfw fandom shipping is allowed we should still encourage completely original works, characters and monsters. We especially want original creations because a lot of monsters and terato art has no connection to existing properties.
I agree that dwarves are too human but some goblins and orcs are acceptable. Recently I read that Russian fantasy literature has more women writers, creators and audiences than the west does so that should show there's plenty of space for yume content in more familiar fantasy settings.
Aliens and zombies should be allowed if they're different enough from humans. Agree that male Rottytops is too human.
Kemonomimi, fangs, wings, bishe forms that remove monstrous features and non human skin tones are not monstrous enough to allow. Not that they're very common but I wonder if any male versions of Monster Girl Encyclopedia species would fit here.
Zim on_model is alien enough for the booru. I'd like to see what yume content you have!
Regarding eyebrows one example that's compelling to consider is that dogs evolved to have more expressive eyebrows to better communicate with humans. Having distinct eyebrow hair on top of fur certainly is a more human trait but I think that shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Digitigrade is very good but we should still have space for plantigrade. Furries don't look good with human feet but I don't think we'll have much of that.
Sonic isn't really my thing but I'd be fine seeing what yume ships people have made. They might be better than the other stuff from the Sonic fandom.
As far as Animal Crossing is concerned we pretty much have to allow it even if it's solely because how popular Raymond got. Please upload your Animal Crossing pieces!

That's quite alot but I think that's good for now. How does that line up with what you're hoping for? What things still need revising?

wawanya said:

One of the things that is difficult to directly search for on e6 is Anthro Male on Human Female (/amohf/) content especially if it's sfw.

..yeah honestly... i have the same opinion there. i feel like we made the site to archive monster on girl stuff because its hard to find.
for me that would be including stuff like werewolves or other anthros as well (i mean if youre gonna allow wolves+pokemon like cinderace then like i said others should be ok as well..) but yeah..
those were my personal thoughts.
ac cat villagers are simply flat faced anthros no matter how you turn it. things like cats are popular animals on the internet in general.
i also cant just not allow plantigrades (not that i would anyway cause it cuts into the content) cause ac villagers are... plantigrades. plantigrade just refers to how they stand+their feet size for me.
well alright i guess i dont need to over analyze the features of my (and others if it came to mod stuff one day) future anthro uploads anymore if we are going with this which is kind of a huge relief for me.

ah yeah i also visited those generals sometimes because thats one of the few spaces we actually had.

wawanya said:
Regarding eyebrows one example that's compelling to consider is that dogs evolved to have more expressive eyebrows to better communicate with humans.

oh i completely forgot about that. their eyebrows are not as visually distinct as they are on people but this is very interesting to add.

i agree with everything said so im fine with it.

dronedartdrain-tc said:
for me that would be including stuff like werewolves or other anthros as well (i mean if youre gonna allow wolves+pokemon like cinderace then like i said others should be ok as well..) but yeah..

I skipped over werewolves since they're pretty common but yeh they're classic monsters! Yumes deserve their wild puppies. X3

dropped a related comment discussing new tag names in
Minor Tagging Questions / Discussions

im gonna mention some things cause it was in an email.

the plan so far is to allow these humanoids under a missing/distorted face rule.
if a known monster such as masada appears on model then the submission will be approved even if hair is covering his face.
i would now go and approve those queued submissions basically.
things like slenderman or pyramid head or shadow people from the anime/manga shadows house.. would all be allowed under this rule.

my opinion on this was that we simply try this out.
definitions still need to be written but anything that appears very human to me such as masada will be tagged as borderline human by me.

i will add more to this topic later.

edit:
borderline human.

i actually uploaded a good example for this today. webber from dont starve.
he may be an anthro in a way but his body has a human shape and he has no abdomen. his other legs are attached to his head instead of his body.
he is short in his cannon form but can be drawn as tall as a person. he is on a border between anthro and humanoid.
to make things easier for everyone (and especially me..) im just gonna go ahead and count him as anthro so we dont need to think so much.

well should webber even be tagged as a borderline human character?
i feel like a rough rule could be that they must have skin instead of fur/feathers for it to count as a borderline human.
this is why i was sure about tagging zim the alien in this way.. yet webber does look quite human when drawn in human proportions.
it does make sense to tag it so people could filter it so..
i guess a general rule for such anthro humanoids like webber could be to tag it but only when he has more human proportions?

i will add more to this later..

dronedartdrain-tc said:
i actually uploaded a good example for this today. webber from dont starve.
he may be an anthro in a way but his body has a human shape and he has no abdomen. his other legs are attached to his head instead of his body.
he is short in his cannon form but can be drawn as tall as a person. he is on a border between anthro and humanoid.
to make things easier for everyone (and especially me..) im just gonna go ahead and count him as anthro so we dont need to think so much.

well should webber even be tagged as a borderline human character?
i feel like a rough rule could be that they must have skin instead of fur/feathers for it to count as a borderline human.
this is why i was sure about tagging zim the alien in this way.. yet webber does look quite human when drawn in human proportions.
it does make sense to tag it so people could filter it so..
i guess a general rule for such anthro humanoids like webber could be to tag it but only when he has more human proportions?

I'm not 100 % sure whether people would tag Webber as anthro. He certainly looks like he deserves tags of humanoid_body and animal_head the latter of which is an e6 tag. Should we still apply the anthro or borderline_human tags anyway?
Another potential example is an Egyption Anubian Jackal who still has a human body without fur but has the bespoke animal head. Would we consider monsters like those as anthro, borderline human or something else?
As for Zim I'm happy to just categorize him as alien. I don't usually consider aliens as anthro or borderline_human unless the alien is a space furry then using anthro would make sense there.

wawanya said:
I'm not 100 % sure whether people would tag Webber as anthro.

compared to other arthropod anthros all hes really missing is an abdomen to feel more anthro.
what im meaning to also say is id give him anthro privileges so we dont immediately have to make exact rules on whether his face is distorted enough for the site or not lol.. and he can be drawn in any size and doesnt have to be on model.

wawanya said:
Should we still apply the anthro tag

i mean there are anthros without tails and technically theyre kinda just people with animal heads so i dont see why not right now. at least for webber.

wawanya said:
Another potential example is an Egyption Anubian Jackal who still has a human body without fur but has the bespoke animal head. Would we consider monsters like those as anthro

i actually would consider such Egyption gods anthro. thats basically how i see anthros so not having fur on the body doesnt make a huge difference to me.
we could definitely use animal head in those cases but hmm webber does have fur.
i think animal head should be tagged on skin colored bodies cause thats pretty much how e6 uses that tag.
youre thinking of also using it on animal humanoid cases.. well it could be helpful. its a way to tag them.
theres animals without tails though so maybe only apply the tag on anthros with missing tails or abdomens where there should be one?
or should we just tag it on all missing tail humanoid bodies that have an animal head?
is this getting too complicated..? maybe just drop the animal head thought? hmm..

wawanya said:
humanoid_body

ok this is actually a great tag idea that we should use. i think this is really useful for so many cases.

wawanya said:
As for Zim I'm happy to just categorize him as alien

he is kind of just a green little man with arthropod flavor attached. i would say IF webber with fur counts as borderline human then zim definitely goes in that category too.
theyre both kinda arthropods but zim is just way less so because he has skin and his arthropod limbs are retractable.
i mean we could take him out because he has like 5-7 monster features.. eyes+skin+backpack+(arthropod tentacles)+antennae...short if on model (which is what i upload.) 7 if we count his missing nose.
but then in my opinion on model short webber definitely wouldnt belong anymore in that category though..

wawanya said:
I don't usually consider aliens as anthro or borderline_human

ah well actually.. making alien the difference here between being tagged as borderline human or not is a bad idea because masada is found in a space ship.

yume nikki wiki quote:
He is found in a monochromatic spaceship, and is apparently the pilot, as there are no other characters in the area. He initially stands facing the middle of a large organ. He slowly turns in all four directions randomly. When Madotsuki interacts with him, he makes a trilling, robotic noise, the same one as one of the Neon Creatures. When interacting with him during the spaceship crash event, he makes a higher-pitched version of the same sound; also, he spins around much faster, which implies that he is panicking. When the ship crashes on Mars, his 'voice' is much more low-pitched, possibly signifying that he is upset by the ordeal.

tagging a creature like him not as borderline human obviously wouldnt make sense.
i mean even if the wiki doesnt call him an alien just having a creature like that not be counted as borderline human doesnt seem right.

dronedartdrain-tc said:
i actually would consider such Egyption gods anthro. thats basically how i see anthros so not having fur on the body doesnt make a huge difference to me.
we could definitely use animal head in those cases but hmm webber does have fur.
i think animal head should be tagged on skin colored bodies cause thats pretty much how e6 uses that tag.

I completely forgot Webber had fur! Maybe it's because most of the time players are using cosmetics. Yep definitely anthro then.
Egyptian gods can have each of the tags anthro, animal_head and humanoid_body then. Even if their body is humanoid it's fair to still call them anthro.
 

dronedartdrain-tc said:
or should we just tag it on all missing tail humanoid bodies that have an animal head?
is this getting too complicated..? maybe just drop the animal head thought? hmm..

The animal_head tag was intended mostly to work in the same way as object_head. It implies that the rest of the body is human rather than monstrous.
On e6 they actually say that characters who have the animal_head tag are not anthro but are instead animal_humanoid. Since usually animal_humanoid is reserved for catgirls and catboys who both don't belong on our booru maybe that would be a viable alternative to anthro in this case? Interested in your feelings on this.
 

dronedartdrain-tc said:
ah well actually.. making alien the difference here between being tagged as borderline human or not is a bad idea because masada is found in a space ship.

tagging a creature like him not as borderline human obviously wouldnt make sense.
i mean even if the wiki doesnt call him an alien just having a creature like that not be counted as borderline human doesnt seem right.

Oh I didn't know that about Masada. I still want to have an alien tag but maybe my last post forgetting Webber's actual appearance did more to confuse things than clarify them.
For now let's only tag an alien if they very obviously look like a space creature or resemble little green men. Masada doesn't need to have an alien tag then.
Tell me how you would tag Zim though. I trust what you want to go with but it might help clear things up so we can have confidence we're back on track.

need to say im extremely busy lately because of christmas and new year coming up (i am expecting visitors who will stay over) but it will thankfully finally calm down in january...

wawanya said:

Since usually animal_humanoid is reserved for catgirls and catboys who both don't belong on our booru maybe that would be a viable alternative to anthro in this case? Interested in your feelings on this.

im thinking there could be a problem when we drastically repurpose tags too much? the tag sounds like a good description though hmm.
what do you think about my concern? is it fine after all? i do like this tag idea. i would say we can use this.

wawanya said:
Tell me how you would tag Zim though. I trust what you want to go with but it might help clear things up so we can have confidence we're back on track.

it all depends on how we draw the line on what counts as borderline and what kind of content we allow.
something like zim appears very human compared to the other content on here (which is why i had the idea to tag him) so maybe it just makes sense to put him into borderline.
i think taking him out of the category could be confusing cause hmm let us look at tall zim as an example.. how different is he to masada?
well hes green and has no hair as the biggest differences. bald people.. exist. even on model zim whos just shorter.. well manlets.. exist. those two little antennae dont really do much.
honestly i think it might just be easier to categorize such beings as borderline. gray and green alien people with big eyes just kinda look like humans. just put those aliens into borderline.

masada and zim both have unusual eyes as their biggest difference to humans. they are similar.
starting to count fingers is a bit.. well lets just say i didnt even know zim had 3 fingers until i started drawing him.

summary:
basically i think anything that just looks like a person with unnatural skintone and a "distorted face" that is simply some different eyes can just go into borderline. its easier that way.
some tiny alien antennae dont make a big difference on alien humanoids.

another thought i had was about no face from spirited away. maybe that character is simply fine to be uploaded because he wears a mask?
man i really want to write down more concrete rules and thoughts on this whole topic when i get the time. december is so stressful.

dronedartdrain-tc said:
need to say im extremely busy lately because of christmas and new year coming up (i am expecting visitors who will stay over) but it will thankfully finally calm down in january...

Understandable. Same for me too honestly.
 

dronedartdrain-tc said:
im thinking there could be a problem when we drastically repurpose tags too much? the tag sounds like a good description though hmm.
what do you think about my concern? is it fine after all? i do like this tag idea. i would say we can use this.

It does break the convention of using e6 tags and their meaning unless there's a better reason. Maybe we'll just go with setting each tag for these, so animal_head, anthro and animal_humanoid, and we can later change this if we feel the need to. How does that sound?
 

dronedartdrain-tc said:
basically i think anything that just looks like a person with unnatural skintone and a "distorted face" that is simply some different eyes can just go into borderline. its easier that way.
some tiny alien antennae dont make a big difference on alien humanoids.

Hm. Probably the best way to tag Zim and similar cases might be to tag him as both alien and borderline_human so that someone could search alien -borderline_human in order to get more terato results. What do you make of that?
 

dronedartdrain-tc said:
another thought i had was about no face from spirited away. maybe that character is simply fine to be uploaded because he wears a mask?

I think him being incorporeal and particularly having an uncertain form are enough to allow him. The mask helps I think but I don't know enough about the character.
 

dronedartdrain-tc said:
man i really want to write down more concrete rules and thoughts on this whole topic when i get the time. december is so stressful.

It's fine! We'll be plenty prepared by the time other users find and start using this place!

wawanya said:
Understandable. Same for me too honestly.

It's fine! We'll be plenty prepared by the time other users find and start using this place!

yep right now things are chill and im kinda glad about that cause its hard trying to make oc + doing everything else. things will get easier the more is done though.
(for example i know the pokemon implications for the other generations arent active. i didnt touch them cause you guys were doing something with that but i might now at this point.)
i am also once again falling for the make your own game meme and have been doing something in gb studio.
you said we should encourage original content that isnt related to any franchise and i cant agree more with that.

wawanya said:
Hm. Probably the best way to tag Zim and similar cases might be to tag him as both alien and borderline_human.

this is what ive been doing so i agree there.

wawanya said:
I think him being incorporeal and particularly having an uncertain form are enough to allow him. The mask helps I think but I don't know enough about the character.

id also allow that character. he has arms and legs so hes some sort of humanoid ghost. just trying to think of creatures and how they fit into current rules. masks are kind of different. maybe different enough to require their own set of rules.

wawanya said:
we can later change this if we feel the need to. How does that sound?

i would still use animal_head for skin colored bodies only. the other two are fine with me.

dronedartdrain-tc said:
yep right now things are chill and im kinda glad about that cause its hard trying to make oc + doing everything else. things will get easier the more is done though.

If we get more activity I'll make sure to be active enough to handle it. You're doing fantastic so far though!
 

dronedartdrain-tc said:
i am also once again falling for the make your own game meme and have been doing something in gb studio.
you said we should encourage original content that isnt related to any franchise and i cant agree more with that.

Wow really cool! I know quite alot about programming though not so much for games specifically. Targeting the GameBoy with GB Studio sounds like a great way to get started! If you ever want extra help I could try contributing.
 

dronedartdrain-tc said:
i would still use animal_head for skin colored bodies only. the other two are fine with me.

Happy to set this as the rule. Skin color is a good differentiator.

wawanya said:

If we get more activity I'll make sure to be active enough to handle it. You're doing fantastic so far though!

hhh thank you. it feels good to hear cause im trying to have more output.
im at the very least always archiving/finding art and fixing missing implications/aliases regularly cause i love our site.
its like a ray of sunlight in the dark forest thats the internet. it makes me genuinely happy.

wawanya said:
Targeting the GameBoy with GB Studio sounds like a great way to get started!

i wanted to try gb studio to see if its easier as long as i keep it simple and ah yeah it is. i want to learn more by doing something i can accomplish.
the worst things to overcome are the gb limitations and my bean sized brain but ive managed to troubleshoot anything i wanted to do so far in it hooray.

there are some bothersome things. you cant decide the layering order of actor sprites in a simple way and instead its decided based on how they load into the game.
tileswapping on the background has to be done with unique tiles or all will change. yeahh you can do work arounds but its just not a feature.
im doing something simple i can actually finish as a tiny game. im gonna be putting my background onto the overlay layer though cause im hitting limits.
(been playing games on my miyoo irl so being able to drag drop it onto a console would be pretty awesome)

wawanya said:
I know quite alot about programming though not so much for games specifically.
If you ever want extra help I could try contributing.

honestly so cool of you. thank you. this one i can hopefully just finish on my own but having someone who knows about code i can shoot a message about my game stuff if it ever comes to that is extremely helpful.

dronedartdrain-tc said:
honestly so cool of you. thank you. this one i can hopefully just finish on my own but having someone who knows about code i can shoot a message about my game stuff if it ever comes to that is extremely helpful.

Will you post it on your timeline once you complete it? I might do a demo file recording playthrough when it's ready.